[Humanist] 23.184 dull and sharp

Humanist Discussion Group willard.mccarty at mccarty.org.uk
Sat Jul 25 10:19:03 CEST 2009


                 Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 23, No. 184.
         Centre for Computing in the Humanities, King's College London
                       www.digitalhumanities.org/humanist
                Submit to: humanist at lists.digitalhumanities.org

  [1]   From:    "Michael S. Hart" <hart at pobox.com>                         (3)
        Subject: Re: [Humanist] 23.179 dull and sharp

  [2]   From:    Melissa Terras <m.terras at ucl.ac.uk>                       (15)
        Subject: Re: [Humanist] 23.157 why so dull?


--[1]------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009, Humanist Discussion Group wrote:

> >                   Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 23, No. 173.
> >           Centre for Computing in the Humanities, King's College London
> >                         www.digitalhumanities.org/humanist
> >                  Submit to: humanist at lists.digitalhumanities.org
> >
> >
> >
> >          Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:11:31 +0200
> >          From: Paolo Rocchi <PAOLOROCCHI at it.ibm.com>
> >          Subject: Re: [Humanist] 23.165 dull and sharp
> >          In-Reply-To: <20090717050055.A68D31FF9D at woodward.joyent.us>

This sounds as if it is a reduction from Kipling's oft quoted:

     I keep six honest serving-men
     (They taught me all I knew);
     Their names are What and Why and When
     And How and Where and Who.

which may have, in turn, been a reference to similarly quoted
passages from the ancient Romans and Greeks.

The point _I_ am making here is that the wider, not narrower,
contextual points of view should be used, to include a reason
why it was done when and by whom, which could include how the
tools evolved, were learned, etc., to answer the question why
it was done when it was, etc.

Michael S. Hart
Founder
Project Gutenberg,
Inventor of eBooks

PS

The "people, things, concepts" quote is great.

Perhaps should be extended to stem from and through:

Feeling, thought, idea, concept, model, prototype, product to
the final stage of become part of our culture.
> >
> >  >Paulo:
> >  >
> >  >> I find extraordinary Jim's remark:
> >  >> "Some people are more interested in people,
> >  >> Some people are more interested in things,
> >  >> Some people are more interested in concepts."
> >  >>
> >  >> My initial background stems from classical studies and I was convinced
> >  >> that culture was the ultimate authority in society. Unfortunately fashions
> >  >> changes and I find high-culture representatives more concerned on things
> >  >> than on tenets and knowledge.
> >  >
> >  >Why do you find my remark extraordinary?  I find it obvious and simplistic.
> >  >
> >  >Yes, if you've studied the classics, you will be studying the works of
> >  >those who believed culture is the ultimate authority in society.  But
> >  >even then, that belief was probably not true of most people, just
> >  >those educated enough to read and write.
> >  >
> >  >Jim R
> >
> >  Hi Jim
> >
> >  Recently Milan Zeleny (*) introduced a pretty scheme to illustrate the
> >  challenging pathway toward full scientific understanding. The scheme
> >  includes four steps: Data, Information, Knowledge and Wisdom (DIKW).
> >  Zeleny points out how *Data* is the set of measurements about an
> >  invention.  Initial elaboration of those data generates *Information* that
> >  adds context to the invention. Scientists are able to describe the
> >  earliest discovery after the first two stages and to answer a question
> >  like "'What'?. Researchers become more aware of a find through successive
> >  studies, namely they gain *Knowledge* that is composed of the insights,
> >  the values and the judgments which make individuals capable of replying a
> >  query about the origins of the novel phenomenon (= 'How?'). *Wisdom*, the
> >  ultimate comprehension of a matter that answer a question like 'Why?', and
> >  is reached as long as scientists obtain the solid conceptualization of the
> >  entire context which rings the initial discovery.
> >
> >  Whereas researchers made efforts to cover the entire pathway in the past
> >  centuries, present day researchers take two steps with ardor in order to
> >  obtain immediate return of investments. The third step is rather tardy and
> >  the fourth step involves a very few people. I find your aphorism may be
> >  used to sum up the sociological experience of those (like me) who work
> >  around the principles of computer science:
> >  - people more interested in people and in things, say over 99%,
> >  - people more interested in concepts, say less 1%.
> >
> >  It is evident how the incomplete course DIKW - say the incomplete culture
> >  on computer systems - impairs the progress of technology and science as
> >  von Bertalanffy argued decades ago. And frequently we go around randomly.
> >
> >  (*) Zeleny M. - Management Support Systems: Towards Integrated Knowledge
> >  -Management, Human Systems Management, 7(1), (1987).
> >
> >  Yours.
> >
> >  Paolo Rocchi
> >
> >  IBM
> >  SWG   Research and Development
> >  via Shanghai 53,    00144 ROMA
> >  phone: 39-6-5966-5213
> >  fax  : 39-6-5966-3618
> >
> >  IBM Italia S.p.A.
> >  Sede Legale: Circonvallazione Idroscalo - 20090 Segrate (MI)
> >  Cap. Soc. euro 400.001.359
> >  C. F. e Reg. Imprese MI 01442240030 - Partita IVA 10914660153
> >  Società soggetta all?attività di direzione e coordinamento di
> >  International Business Machines Corporation
> >
> >  (Salvo che sia diversamente indicato sopra / Unless stated otherwise
> >  above)
> >
> >


--[2]------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:51:49 +0100
        From: Melissa Terras <m.terras at ucl.ac.uk>
        Subject: Re: [Humanist] 23.157 why so dull?
        In-Reply-To: <20090714092159.15C153272A at woodward.joyent.us>

Willard,

I broke my front tooth at SDH/SEMI 2006.

just thought I would share that with you!

(I noticed later in the hotel room)!

m



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